Wednesday, June 17, 2009

My original post today asked about the possibility of hitching a ride to pick up our plane, and offering to pay for some of the gas of whatever airplane took us there. I quickly got a really informative email from a nice fellow who politely explained that what I was asking for was illegal in the USA. I consulted the FAA regs and it turns out that I can't offer to pay gas for a ride - in Canada the rules are different, and I'll do up a blog post tomorrow detailing the differences.

I have deleted the original post as it no longer applies (I think we'll just snag a rental car and drive the 7 hours), but I'll revisit this tomorrow as it's an issue that I find interesting.


david said...

I can't help because of schedule conflicts, though it sounds like fun (and I could probably do it on about 30 us gallons each way in my Warrior). I want to warn you, though, that KCXY might be an iffy airport for a private pilot to visit: the only FBO there has made AirNav block comments.

A commenter on the OurAirports page mentioned a $150 ramp fee, but didn't say what kind of plane (turbine, maybe?):

The fees didn't sound bad when I called myself, but I choose to refuel in Binghamton instead on my way back to Ottawa from Dulles.

phil said...

I may have misunderstood this for my US ppl. I thought that passengers can pay for their fair share of the costs.

david said...

Phil: from non-official sources, my understanding was that passengers could pay their share of the gas only if the pilot was making the trip anyway.

In other words, if I call two friends up and say "I'm flying to Harrisburg for fun, want to come along?" then each of them can pay a third of the gas; however, if I'm making the trip only for their sake, then it smells like an air-taxi trip if I collect any expenses.

ScurvyDog said...

I thought that the rules are carried with the nationality of the aircraft. So a C registered a/c is under CARS for airworthiness while under traffic regulations for the FAA. This means how the aircraft is operated and what type of training the crew has is under CARS and if you bust altitudes and fly recklessly thats under the FAR's. Maybe my misunderstanding.

jinksto said...

yeah, If the pilot were making the trip anyway then the passenger can pay up to an equal amount.

All of that changes if the pilot has a commercial license I think. As I understood it the rule only applies to people with a non commercial ticket... e.g. private pilots.

When it comes breaking FAA rules though I tend to try not to be one of the fellows breaking new ground in the "yeah, here's the limit" field.

Colin said...

A Canadian friend wrote you email offering a ride and never heard back.

Anonymous said...

Ah yes, the vagaries of "holding yourself out" for common carriage.

The best guide seems to be as stated above - if you are going anyhow, then your "friends" can share the costs. But, even as a CPL, you have to pay your pro-rata portion.

If you weren't going yourself, and your friends pay, then you've crossed the fuzzy, near invisible, ill-defined line.

Of course, if you own the plane and they pay for gas while you "pay" for maintenance... Hmmm...

Anonymous said...

Two points here:
1. In the US, you may not solicit a "ride," because by announcing that you are looking, the people who then offer you a ride could be seen as "holding out" to the public. Either way, you MUST pay your pro-rata share of the costs of the flight, and I would recommend you make it VERY CLEAR that you are going to pay your share of the costs. Otherwise it could be seen as air transportation.

2. The rules apply whether you are flying Canadian registered aircraft or any aircraft in US airspace. The flight rules and commercial operating rules apply for each country's airspace, and the registry of the aircraft has no bearing. In other words, we don't allow Canadians to fly any differently in the US than other US operators. Similarly, when US operators fly to Canada they are responsible for flying within Canada's regulatory structure.

The rules for Air Transportation can be tricky, but just remember that whenever someone is receiving compensation, whether monetary or otherwise (like flight time or a free ride) the rules may view this as transportation.